Photos by Alex Kluft
The maestro reimagines gospel music from the ground up on 'Sweet, Sweet Spirit'
If we’ve learned anything from Ron Carter’s incomparable seven-decade career, it’s that when he’s organizing the bottom end, the music is better for it. Whether it’s bebop with the Miles Davis Quintet, bossa nova with Antonio Carlos Jobim, or hip-hop with A Tribe Called Quest, he boosts everything he touches in his endless pursuit of the right notes.
Now the 89-year-old icon is taking on the challenge of anchoring an 80-piece choir and big band. Sweet, Sweet Spirit, his first full-fledged foray into gospel, is a collaboration with Chicago vocalist/choirmaster Ricky Dillard under the guidance of Don Was. Although Carter was in good hands, he didn’t realize how deeply revisiting the traditional church hymns of his youth would affect him. (The album’s ten songs were favorites of his late mother, Willie O. Carter, to whom the record is dedicated.) By focusing intently on the lyrics and taking inspiration from gospel bass singers, Carter unleashes bass lines with a fresh musical perspective that drives the choir to new heights, leaving his “footprint on their backs.” “I’m always chasing after that halo with any project I do,” he says, beaming with pride. “On this record, we have a halo over the entire ensemble.”
How did the idea for this record occur to you?
Well, it’s a been long time coming. Many years, ago when my mom was nearing the end of her time on the planet, my sister put her in a nursing home and asked me to find her favorite church hymns and compile them on a disc that my mom could listen to on a little boombox. I bought a computer and a music program and put together recordings of a dozen of her favorites, with the addition of my accompaniment on bass — and to my surprise, given that the technology was new to me, it came out sounding good. At the time, I was doing projects for [legendary producer] Gene McDaniels, and like me, he was interested in the religious music of our youth. We decided that when we had time, we would arrange these songs together and record them. Unfortunately, it was soon Gene’s time to “leave the concert,” as I say, so it never got done. From there, whenever anyone asked me what my next project was, I would say, I’m working on something — meaning these hymns.
A few years ago, I ran into Don Was, and he asked the same question. I told him the whole story, and he said, “Let me introduce you to someone who could do choir versions of the songs.” That was Ricky Dillard. Ricky came over for a cup of coffee, I explained the concept, and he said, “We’ll take this on in a heartbeat!” With the help of his arranger, Zeke Listenbee, and after numerous trials and tribulations, we worked out the arrangements.
What was your concept for the record?
Originally, it was to record the songs with some strings and a single vocalist, but Ricky brought in the whole choir aspect. They recorded their tracks in Chicago, Ricky brought them to New York, and I spent two days recording my parts in what was a journey of self-discovery. My focus was to listen to the words with some real intent; not just to boost the choir in another direction with my parts, but to highlight certain verbal ideas in the song.
As I was listening to these hymns, I remembered hearing them at eight or nine years old but not paying attention to what they were saying. These hymns were the church members asking for help. They were asking for God to come down to this place called earth to save their souls, save their kids, save their grandparents, because they were not getting help from anyone who was already here. And the more I heard the lyrics on playback, the more embarrassed I was that I didn’t comprehend them as a child, and the more stunned I was at how relevant they are in 2026. It was very overwhelming and emotional.
I’m hoping when people hear these hymns with me in the background, the same thoughts will occur to them: That they’ve heard these words before, and in this new format they have a whole new meaning. These songs are back with a big band and jazz bass to give folks a boost in their spirits and make them realize this is not the devil’s music. This is our music.
Let’s talk about your approach. What was on the charts you were reading?
It was a combination of notes and chord symbols. In some cases, I was given the left-hand piano or organ part, with the changes written over them, so I knew what the aim was in the left hand. You can’t really transcribe left-hand bass from a keyboard part for a bass, of course, because it’s very different in range and movement. Once I distilled where the notes were on the bass, I did what I do, replacing those notes with my own, [which are] designed to carry the weight of the choir and drive the music in new directions. I knew I had one or two takes at most for each song; I’ve learned over the years that by the third take, you become too focused on what you can do rather than on making the music the priority. The choir was already recorded, so the other challenge was to find and match their heartbeat.
I’ve learned over the years that by the third take, you become too focused on what you can do rather than on making the music the priority.
You’ve said that your parts were inspired by gospel bass singers, not gospel keyboard bass.
Exactly. Especially because that’s what the choir is used to hearing — the bass as a voice. I went and listened to a cappella groups like the Fairfield Four. The bass singers have a great quality to their voices, tone-wise, and they’re jamming as they go along. I wanted that kind of feeling. Not so much to replace the bass voice, but to add alternate notes in the chord that would make the top voices in the choir do something different; I wanted this new underpinning to catch their attention. I also tried to create parts that would tell a story, from the first note to the last.
Let’s talk about the gear you used on the record. Did you play your Juzek bass?
Yes, I played the 1910 Juzek that I got in 1959, the one that’s responsible for over 2,000 records. I’m finally learning how to play that sucker [laughs]. It has La Bella 7710N Professional Jazz Strings and a David Gage Realist pickup, and they had a great open-air mic on it in the studio. James Farber, our Grammy-winning mix engineer, did an incredible job with the mix, from the transparency of the arrangements and the clarity of the percussion to the bass always being at the right volume, whether within the band or by itself. The more you listen to the record, the more you hear.
These songs are back with a big band and jazz bass to give folks a boost in their spirits and make them realize this is not the devil’s music. This is our music.
Both the opener, “Open My Eyes,” and “Pass Me Not” have straight-eighth-note bass lines that you transform into walking lines for the B sections to dramatic effect.
I did that for several reasons. First, it’s what I felt musically, as another way to approach the songs that will hopefully inspire gospel bassists to think in different ways. Second, I wanted to establish the upright bass in gospel, where it’s rarely heard. It has a different sound than the electric bass, which is predominant in that music. And last, gospel bassists are a special breed who are great at what they do, but sometimes they can seem focused on a rhythmic figure or a specific groove. Our main job as bassists is to construct and develop bass lines that support the song. That all said, this experience was new to me. It’s not a jazz record where I do my thing from years of jazz recordings. It’s not a bebop gig where anything I play goes, and they expect me to come up with something new each night. It’s truly special to come in and play church songs with a choir, so I was very careful to rein myself in. I was expected to embrace the choir and the music with one or two notes, one or two rhythms, one or two non-root tones, or an occasional slide. That was the discipline I set for myself. Can I make this work without using all of my tricks, so to speak?
On both of those songs and several others, you’re featured on brief solos or step-outs.
I look at them more as part of the arrangements than features. I trust that Ricky and Zeke know what kind of breaks the choir needs. They’re screaming their lungs out, so the bass step-outs seemed like the right time to let the choir catch their collective breath and sit for a moment.
On tracks like “Farther Along” and “Softly & Tenderly,” where there’s a vocal soloist, your bass plays more of a counter-voice role.
Those were nice for opening up the sound of the instrument to a choir that doesn’t normally hear that kind of quality in the bass voice. But it was a challenge because I was so exposed. I focused extra hard on nailing my intonation.
You start “In the Garden” by yourself. Were you playing over anything in particular?
I was just improvising while thinking about the lyrics. I was trying to play to a picture in my head of the choir going to a garden and serenading the Holy One. I found a motion that seemed to swing with the words, as I recited them in my mind.
What does the future look like with regard to live performances of this music and a follow-up record?
Well, we did a performance in Chicago, and it was amazing [watch below]. The lines were out the door and the audience got to experience 80 people strung across the back of the stage, with this tall, slim, nattily dressed, handsome man of color in the center, playing this thing called a string bass [chuckles]. And the words were on the screen behind us so they could sing along. Hopefully we can put some more events like that together. The record is doing well because in addition to jazz stations, gospel stations are now adding it to their regular music rotation. As for a second record, I know Ricky and I would be down for it. There are countless church choirs with whole libraries of songs, so the material is out there to put our special stamp on. We’ll see what happens now that the vibe is in the air.
Sweet, Sweet Spirit Live
“Pass Me Not”:
“Farther Along”:
Root Revoice
A look at the bass chart for “Just a Little Talk with Jesus” offers a glimpse into Ron Carter’s creative process and reveals a few overall points. The title is shortened; the word “Guitar” over the first measure refers to the one-bar guitar arpeggio introduction that starts the song. The notation is mainly a walking bass line with some band-unison accents or licks throughout, and judging by its repetition and limited range, it’s either a keyboard bass line or the arranger’s suggested walking bass line. The pencil markings (mostly chord changes, along with a bit of text) indicate Carter’s thoughts as he navigated the parts and developed his own.
Let’s go through the chart while discussing what Carter actually plays. For Letter A (first verse), Letter B (first chorus), Letter C (second verse), and Letter D (second chorus), Carter follows the changes but creates his own driving walking line. At Letter E, which says “Chorus 2” on the chart but has verse chord changes, Carter stops walking and mainly plays just downbeats, creating an interesting contrast. For Letter F — a 15-bar section marked “Soli,” marked by a pause in the vocals — Carter plays the band accents (save for the guitar lick in measures 84-85). We’re back to the third verse at Letter G, with Carter’s own walking line. Letter H (an odd 17 measures due to two bars of the V7 chord at the end) follows the verse changes. It has guitar and vocal hits written, but Carter walks through the section, as well.
Letter I begins a series of building, shout-like sections that remain on the tonic Bb chord, which continues through Letters J and K, all with Carter walking powerfully. One measure before Letter L, Carter begins a series of dramatic descending and ascending slides before resuming his walking line for the final four measures of the section. At Letter M, the backing vocals and band drop out, and the drums come down in volume. This thrusts Carter’s unstoppable walking line front and center behind the lead vocal, and the lick shown in the part played quietly by guitar. Eight measures later, the band and choir are back in full force, some playing and singing the written lick. This leads to the extended V7 chord for seven bars, starting at measure 177. At 184 everyone arrives at the tonic chord, with Carter playing slides and cool syncopated rhythms beneath the choir’s long crescendo. The four-bar repeat at the end of the chart serves as an outro, which is repeated into the fade out. Inside of the section, Carter settles into a second-line kind of rhythm and adds a reharm at 4:00 that descends from Db7 for two measures, a bar of C7, a bar of B7, and back to the tonic Bb7. All in all, an uplifting and inspiring performance!
“Just a Little Walk with Jesus”:
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By: Chris Jisi
